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Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: July 19, 2002 10:53PM

Dear Friends,

It has occured to me over the past few months, reading about so many old Piedmont aircraft being retired from USAirways as they try to recover from years of losses and try to slim down, complete, survive or what ever you want to call it..........
As I read on the internet about the aircraft they have retired in recent months/years, and look up the tail numbers on a search engine to find that these have been either cut up, set on display, used for training exercises in a non-flying capacity, sold to other airlines and are still in flight etc......
I realize that there are FEW actual Piedmont Airlines aircraft still in service.
When I say few, I am saying maybe less than 100? Maybe even less than that!
USAirways has retired all or most of the following at this point or has plans to retire them........
737-200
727-200
MD80 all series all from PSA!
F100 (these were not that old, almost new)
DC9
Fokker F28-1000 and F28-4000 (years ago)
BAE146 from PSA!
And, at this point, I would imagine, that the ONLY old Piedmont Jets they still have were all delivered after May of 1985.
That was the month that Piedmont took delivery of it's first 737-300!
I remember that day well!
The -300 was a state of the art and hard to beat aircraft.
But it would likely be the oldest jet in the fleet now.
Imagine that! A 737-300 from May 1985 as the oldest aircraft in the fleet.
Former Piedmont Jets still in use would likely be
737-300
737-400
767-200
And that about does it folks, unless they still have a few old ones around that are scheduled for retirement but havent made it out yet.

I know that DC9s are history there already and I think 737-200s are.
And that is sad. It's sad to hear that 737-200 and 727-200 aircraft are not fuel efficient enough to "make it" in the real airlines these days.
Cause I remember a few short years ago when they were the mainstay of the Piedmont fleet.
Do any of you join me in sheading a few tears over these fine aircraft that served us so well for so long?
If so, email me!
Also, if there are those of you out there who enjoy flight simulation on microsoft flight simulator, please contact me.
We still fly those old birds in flight sim!
All the way back to the YS11s and Martin 404s!

God Bless,

Steve Lyons

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Bob Dean (---.norf.east.verizon.net)
Date: July 25, 2002 03:46PM

Hello Steve, I enjoyed your article very much. Thank you. Captain Bob Dean [retired 767 charlotte, Nov 19, 1988]

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: BILL SARGENT (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: August 01, 2002 01:17AM

HELLO STEVE,

GREAT ARTICLE, I'D SURE LIKE TO GET MY HANDS ON A 404 AND YS11 FOR MY SIM.

HOW DO THEY WORK ON FS2002?

THANKS
BILL SARGENT

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Dave Wiebe (---.158.112.127.Dial1.Pittsburgh1.Level3.net)
Date: August 02, 2002 04:23AM

Hi Steve. Yeah, the DC9s are definitely gone. I went to the celebration that US Airways had last August when the last one left. I think the 737-200s are gone, too. PI pulled jets out of HKY and EWN in the 70s, and so US has to do it to TRI and FAY now. At least they'll get regional jets somewhere down the road. HKY's totally gone from US Airways-it was ditched this spring. The 737-300s will probably stay in the fleet for a while, but only because US cancelled the orders for the A321 and deferred A319s and A320s over the next couple years. The 767s will probably be replaced by A330s in the next couple years, too.

The agreement with UA will go through. If NW/CO can do it, so can US. The jump to Star Alliance in the next two years is just what US needs to survive. Demand means more than the history of great aircraft. As long as the customers get what they want, I'm happy. Take care.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: August 03, 2002 03:45AM

The UA/US merger is long over.....Don't hold your breath.
As for getting rid of Boeings.....Where's your American Spirit?
The 767 is a far better aircraft than the A330.
And the average life span of an airliner is 20-30 years.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: H. W. Robinson (---.waf-dc-1-212.rasserver.net)
Date: August 15, 2002 10:37AM

06:34am thur 8/15/02; Just heard a few days ago that U S Air in filing for bankruptcy. Will this mean that the last of the old PI A/Cs will bite the dust? If so I wish Tom Davis was still around to reform PI. Years ago Harley Davidson sold their company, and when they heard of the abuse that their old company was going through they bought it back. It is now stronger than ever. I'm now retired, but if PI was to re-enstate themselves I would be back in a heart beat. One of the few jobs that I ever had fun with was PI.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: August 16, 2002 02:48AM

DITO!!!!!

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: August 16, 2002 08:31PM

Just a thought.....for those hired around or before May 1985.........


When I was growing up and just a Lad, my Grandfather and Grandmother said all the things Grandparents say about how times flies and your life passes faster the older you get.
I never have considered myself old, even now.
I am getting to the point at age 40, that I feel eternal, in other words, age is only relative.......when compared.
To my Dad, I am young, if my Grandparents were alive, he was consider me really young still. However, most people who were born between 1975 and 1985, think I am ancient.
I am sure you all can relate to that. How many times have younger/junior employees rolled their eyes at you if you were among the Martin 404 and FH227/F27/YS-11 croud and mentioned how short a time it seems to YOU that you were working those flights?

For me, MY days at Piedmont, were marked by Oct 1984, when I started, we flew 727-200s, 737-200s and Fokker F28s.
That's it!
All the YS-11s were gone in '82.
I remember when they were retired. My first revenue flight in my life before I came to work at PI was on a 727 TRI-CLT-TPA flight 59 and when we left the TRI and CLT......there were YS-11s sitting there only a month or so before they would be retired.
But for some today, younger folk, even the 737-200 and 727 or the 737-300 seem old?
Well, if so, then they are really really really wet behind the ears!

If some airlines are actually retireing the 737-300, then there is so much corporate waste it's no wonder companies are loosing money!
Paying attention US?

As I said before, the 737-300 was probably built to last say 20-40 years at least in a fleet.
I know for a fact, first hand that there were too many repaints, de-paints down to metal and repaint again to dk blue and gray.
Brand NEW Fokker F100s bought in 1990 for crying out loud that were also repainted in New colors and then retired.
What was wrong with the F100??????

Nothing in my book, but American is getting rid of them too as we speak!

If "US" is getting rid of all Boeings and going Airbus completely, it's not only a waste of money and good equiptment, it's a shame.

America needs the business. And not the business end we are getting, if you follow me.....

To go totally airbus cannot be justified, no matter what figures or excuses you put on paper.
To say, we profit more with Airbus aircraft is a blow to Boeing AND America at the same time.
If airlines here turn away from Boeing, they are simply being Anti-American.
I cannot imagine any one in their right minds doing that.

Sending all your money to Europe?

Then get all your passengers from there too!

And leave the states to an air carrier that loves the United States.

For me, 1984 wasn't that long ago.....

Sorry younger folks, it just doesn't!

And to those who don't respect Boeing aircraft.....
I hear Europe has plenty of space over there for you.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: August 17, 2002 02:31PM

Check this out if you want to SEE what I am talking about....

[www.iflypsa.com]

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Randy (---.delta.com)
Date: August 18, 2002 01:36AM

I like Boeing aircraft too but face it-Airbus put a great deal on the table for US.Look at all the Airbus aircraft now in North America...UA,NW,AC,MX,plus Frontier,Jet Blue and prob more,soon....This industry is a changin....

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: August 18, 2002 02:29AM

Southwest Airlines.......

The best airline in America today, is making money, when no one else is.

They fly Boeings only, 737s.

Piedmont / Hawthorne Aviation.....

Flies only Boeing aircraft.......

737s, 757s.....

Charters all over the U.S.

They should make an offer for USAirways....

Buy it outta bankruptcy!

Bring Piedmont back!

:)

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: H. W. Robinson (---.waf-dc-2-177.rasserver.net)
Date: August 18, 2002 10:33AM

0629am 8/18/02: I say bring back the old M-404s, they were the only a/c that I could sleep on. When you hit rough air she would roll with the punches, not like riding on an off shore high speed race boat with bone and gut wrenching jarring. She was a baby doll at low altitude in the mountains. If at all possible, All old PI empl's should repurchase PI and revive her. Thanks for reading my opinion. Enjoy your day, H. W. ( aka Robin) Robinson '68 to '73 DCA ops---email bigbirddaddy@hotmail.com P/S; Delta Empl's did that years ago and it worked for them.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Randy (---.delta.com)
Date: August 19, 2002 01:58AM

Ok,Ok my error on PACE...It just kinda annoy's me the way MANY people bash US Management,when they really should read the issue of ATW a few years ago where USAIR was on the cover and the title was....backed into a corner....you hate to seem negative but I prefer not sugar coat things....US is in big trouble,and like PA Nobody can come in and wave a majic wan and fix things...I hope they survive...I left plenty of friends @US...BTW I'm pretty sharp with my airline knowledge too....used the read the OAG just for kicks.....and had a massive schedule-timetable collection.The entire industry is,really in a crisis.Too many airlines and way too many PREMIUM fare psgrs!

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: August 19, 2002 03:11AM

I too have many friends still at USAirways.
I prayers are with them. If I had my way and if most people I know that were part of Piedmont had theirs as well, it would be so much different.
It's not about company names, it's about People.
US management NEVER got that, even from the beginning.
For them it was always about numbers and money alone.
Sadly, changing names again and paint and logos and management was not a fix for them.
The real core problems for them were not the economy. Not 9/11.
Cause a really good company can survive those things.
I believe that PIEDMONT under it's original management team would have made it just fine during everything that has happened in the world AND the industry in the past 13+ years.
There's nothing wrong with the current or past USAir paint scheme. Or name.
Their silver and red and blue were absolutely beautiful!
Theres nothing wrong with the current blue and gray, but the logo leaves much to be desired and the dark blue just isn't as attractive as the silver red white and blue.
But again, those are not their problems.
Their problems are the way they treat their people and their attitude towards them.
And the same regarding their customers/passengers.
Their real problem is they don't have the heart that Piedmont had nor the mentality.
For what so ever a man thinketh, so is he.
They have been so anxious to "sell out" and change the name again to another carrier anyway, that their name really means nothing at this point as it is only temporal, there is no firm secure future for it's employees and they know it.
I wish them the best always.
God Bless and take care,

Steve

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Donald Selover (205.244.97.---)
Date: August 23, 2002 12:31AM



It is amazing how many people wish for Piedmont to rise like the
Phoenix out of the ashes of a bad deal. I too dream of a return, when
I saw the restored DC-3 several years ago at the Air Show at M.C.A.S.
Cherry Point (NKT I THINK?) , it brought back memories, good ones.

I wish someone would bring it back, or at least try to find some
of the original aircraft and make an aviation museum Either at the ori-
-ginal start of the first flight ILM? or in GBO? . Even ISO would be a good
place. New Bern, EWN sure is quiet since their departure many years
ago. I have some slides and pictures somewhere in my stack of stuff
of Piedmont somewhere. May be I will go and try to find them and
reminise a little bit. Keep up the good work and pray for all the
workers at U.S.(PIEDMONT)Airways.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Dave Wiebe (---.158.115.156.Dial1.Pittsburgh1.Level3.net)
Date: September 04, 2002 01:39AM

Steve, I NEVER said that 727s, 737s, and F-28s were bad. I just know that US Airways has a massive order for Airbus, and even though they've deferred some A319s and A320s, and cancelled the A321 orders, they've got a commitment to honor. Wolf never would've filed for bankruptcy, he's just too arrogant. I would love to see PI come back, and if y'all are willing to take a chance on somebody without service experience, but has a love for the people and the airline, hire me! Siegel knows what he's gotten himself into. The UA/US codeshare will go through, but US will be a strong REGIONAL airline, not a "world-class carrier of choice" or, that idiotic statement, "a global carrier." My beloved PIT-RSW route is one of the casualties of US' massive 36% total capacity cut since 9/11. They can keep their transatlantic routes, and large, growing Caribbean network, but I just want "the big airline with the hometown touch" to remain. That's all I ask. PI and US had a lot in common, not the least of which was serving markets that never had scheduled service. But remember, deregulation caused some massive adjustments. EA, PA, TW, and BN are no longer with us, or really had a chance. US does NOT deserve that fate! Their people are too good, and have been through too much! Take care.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: September 04, 2002 08:10PM

Now you are talking!
I agree with most of what you just said.
I grieve as well over the big airline with the small town touch.
USAirways inherited alot of caring professionals, and it's them I worry about their welfare.
US has a history of overpaying it's top heavy people and underpaying it's low end hard workers.
I am afraid you may see it take the fate of Eastern if things don't shape up.
The smart thing to do would be to find another airline that has management that knows what they are doing and how to run an airline and merge with them.
I don't think United fits that bill.

You're a good guy Dave.
I hope you someday find that airline job!

Steve

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Their is just too much capacity
Posted by: Randy (---.delta.com)
Date: September 06, 2002 11:30PM

right now....and few premium psgrs....Midwest Exp is really the only airline with fancy inflight service,and Thanks to being owned by kimberly clark they are able to keep going $$$$.In order for this industry to survive...a few carriers must cease operations.Dave,be carefully getting into this business..make sure you have a real job skill,otherwise it will be 7-8 years or more before you make decent money.Good luck!

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: September 07, 2002 01:44PM

Ya know.....
Something that seems really strange to me......
Just a couple years back, United made this BIG announcement about how they were going to merge with USAirways.
They didn't say they were going to seek approval as the big first step on doing it after they asked the government. They came out with all these disclosures as if all they had to do was make the decision and it was final!
It was told about as a done deal.
Just like most things were done after airline deregulation in the late 1970s.
Back then, if you had the money, you could just announce it.
Here we are, a couple years down the road, and yet another merger scheme has been grounded. For many reasons.
As a child, I was a fan of United till I discovered Piedmont.
And still liked them alot till I watched what happened over the years of the early 1990s. Finally, supposedly, the pilots ended up as owners?
Employee owners?
Then the new paint scheme, which I really don't like.
The old one of the 60s was great! The one of the late 70s and 80s was great too, orange red and blue.
But this grey thing, Yuck!
I know, paint schemes don't make the airline.
But there has been a contrast in paint scheme it seems and the way the airiline has been operated.
All of a sudden, United makes a statement that if someone doesn't give them BILLIONS of dollars......(according to a cable news story recently)
"They are outta here".
Responsible management wouldn't make statements like that.
Companies and airlines in particular are not supposed to be "given" anything.
They are supposed to be self supportive operations.
You say that a couple companies have to stop operations for this airline industry thing to get back to normal.....
That could very well be true.
If so, you have one there which seems to be chomping at the bits to do just that!
So how could they possibly be thinking at this point of taking another carrier down with them?
Just food for thought.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Pam Horton (---.hr.hr.cox.net)
Date: September 09, 2002 09:33PM

Steve, the reason United's airplanes are gray is because Stephan Wolf's favorite color is gray. He used to be the CEO at United. The gray over blue was his idea.

He's also been the CEO at USAir. You will notice that USAir's livery is blue over gray.

Apparently that is his very favorite color scheme.

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