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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Dave Wiebe (---.158.115.217.Dial1.Pittsburgh1.Level3.net)
Date: September 13, 2002 08:46PM

Steve, Randy may have a point about airlines ceasing operations. The UA/US codeshare deal is just that, a codesharing agreement, like Piedmont Commuter and USAir Express were. US Airways does not have the money or size to be able to compete with AA, DL, and UA over the very long haul (25+ years). Alaska, America West, and Midwest Express may well be swallowed up, just like TW, Western, PA, and RC were in the 80s and last year. I love US Airways' people and wish them the best, but if they didn't buy PI and PS in the 80s, they would have been swallowed up themselves, probably by TWA or someone else. Bob Crandall wrote a column in the Washington Post back in August about consolidation in the airline industry, and I understand the problems that the industry faces: TOO MUCH CAPACITY! Everybody grew way too fast in the 90s.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: September 13, 2002 09:17PM

UA/US.....a codeshare deal? Yes! That's what I was trying to tell you.....it's not a merger anymore.
When you speak of "USAirways people", you are speaking of a group which is mostly non - pre 1987 - Original USAir people.
Most of Today's USAirways people are a mixture of New Hire after 1989 merger date, Original Piedmont, Original PSA, Original USAir, Original Empire etc. There were more Piedmont People in USAir at merger date in 1989 than there were original pre PSA merger USAir people.
It can truly be said that today's USAirways is no longer USAir.
It is a combination of alot of different people from alot of different areas.
Maybe even Trump Shuttle and who knows what else.

To say that USAirways doesn't have the money or size to compete with the big three or big four is an astounding admission.
It really puts things in perspective doesn't it?
The Piedmont USAir merger is often refered to as the largest merger in airline history!
You speak volumes when you say they are that small compared with the other majors now. If that is true, then the airline merger game is not one to be in anymore.
Did you know that United is asking for a handout of 7 Billion $ to stay in business? That's what was on cable news recently.
That's seven times what Piedmont sold for in 1987-88-89!
Piedmont sold for I think it was 1.5 Billion.
So, according to United themselves, they are facing bankruptcy.
You seem to have the time on your hands......
Do some research......
And find out if Delta, OR American are strong enough to make it alone the next "25 years" as you say.
Are customers world-wide ready to "give-up" good service and choice of carriers to a world-wide MONOPOLY?
That seems to be what you are describing.
All the big fish eating all the smaller fish and eventually each other!
Sounds more like a nightmare than a good bedtime story.
Have you ever considered looking elsewhere for a future industry to work in?

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Dave Wiebe (---.158.113.240.Dial1.Pittsburgh1.Level3.net)
Date: September 14, 2002 03:48AM

Well, Steve, I DO think that service has a place in the industry, even if US doesn't have the size to last long-term. Yes, I know what UA is going through, and I use the term "US Airways people" to refer to ALL US Airways employees--not just post-89 hires. By the way, I'm applying to PSA Airlines/US Airways Express for a ramp agent position--I'm just not qualified to be a gate agent--yet! Just because US Airways won't survive (I'm getting this info from reading my local paper and listening to airline analysts) doesn't mean CLT, PIT, and PHL are left in the dark. Or TRI, GSO, ERI, and all those small stations, either. I just don't think US is large enough. Also, the USAir/Piedmont merger is no longer the largest merger in airline history--AA/TW is. And that integration took about 14 months--seven months shorter than US/PI! AND with a terrorist attack! AA is truly the industry leader--and no, AA and DL won't file for bankruptcy--AA has $2.6 billion in cash and DL is non-union, so at least two major carriers will survive without gov't interference. Take care.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: September 14, 2002 01:25PM

What qualifications does a gate agent need besides a pulse? LOL
But seriously......
Hope you are right about AA and DL not going bankrupt. Seems they are the only large ones left worth being a Fan of and rooting for.
And JUST HOW BIG does a major have to be to be big enough?
USAirways, at least one time was HUGE, at least before they started sending perfectly good aircraft back to the leasing companies and parking them in the desert!
US COULD have been the best airline in the world, they had the people for sure......IF they had had the management.
I believe there is enough evidence there to prove that already.
If AA or DL do file, are you going to come back here and eat your words?
Hope you bring some catsup so they'll taste better :)
There are no absolutes in this industry anymore Dave......
No matter what you read or who you listen to.
The Glory days of the airline industry are over in real life.
Not in Virtual Reality, but in real life.

God Bless

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Dave Wiebe (---.58.150.139.Dial1.Pittsburgh1.Level3.net)
Date: September 17, 2002 03:46AM

Steve, a gate agent at PSA Airlines needs strong customer service skills and a long-track record in service-oriented jobs. I have no long track-record, so "you're not our type." That's essentially what PSA has told me through letters and phone calls the last two years. But I WILL NOT give up! Greg Lusk's post back in 2000 had a big impact on me. I love the company too much, and have too many travel skills to just quit looking. Why they haven't taken a gamble I'll never know. I'm surprised PSA hasn't had open houses at TRI, they're run the station since mainline left last year.

I don't know how USAir became so unionized. They were nearly all non-union when PI was absorbed. If PI was so good, why did US completely ignore your ways--something had to rub off when you went all out helping other customers, right? Take care.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Pam Horton (---.hr.hr.cox.net)
Date: September 17, 2002 04:44AM

Dear Robin, Stephan Wolf is a native Californian. I just think he likes blue and gray as a color scheme. He probably thinks Virginia state police cruisers are very nice looking.

We were told when the new livery was introduced that gray was Stephan Wolf's favorite color.

I like the new livery with the navy over gray. I think it looks very spiffy. I don't have a problem with the livery.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: September 17, 2002 11:30PM

Dave,

If you love the airline business as much as you say, here's some advise for you from an old Piedmont Station Manager.....
Don't take NO for an answer.
It will probably just take a few years or so before the industry gets back on it's feet, IF it ever does again.
I share your love for the airlines, only difference is, at my age.....(40) I have matured enough to realize that politics has taken over them to the point that it's a hard road to tow even when you work in the business now.
Although arguably still THE business to be in, if there is one :), it's not a cake walk!
If you want the REAL TRUTH about what you asked me about "what happened" before, during and aaaaafter the merger, email me personally.
We need to talk, have a virtual cup of coffee and sit a spell as Uncle Jed would say!
You're a good guy.
And a good sport!

Steve

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Delta just announced we will
Posted by: Randy (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: September 27, 2002 08:45PM

lose $350 mil in this quarter.Customer service,IS important but I guarantee DL lost money because of intense competition,light demand,and loss of premium customers.Whether the psgrs in coach were served a full can of soda or how friendly the gate agents,and fa's were really did'nt have any effect on this loss.When the business man in Shreveport stops going to Munich 3 times/year losing his high yield fare hurts.We can fill up RSW/TPA/SRQ-EWR/BOS/BDL and the poor yields mean little if any profits!

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: September 28, 2002 02:18AM

I know it's hard for ALL the airlines now.
Even the ones that normally make money.
Who knows where it will all end.
I have a nestalgic retrospect now on it all.
Once THE industry to envy.
I just hope we don't end up with only 2 or three airlines left when this is all over.
I guess that would be the worst case senario.

All they can do is keep bailing out the water, and hope that water that's coming into the ship isn't greater in mass than what is being bailed!
(One analogy)

I hope the great Titanic Airline Industy doesn't go down!

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Dave Wiebe (---.58.146.23.Dial1.Pittsburgh1.Level3.net)
Date: September 28, 2002 02:54AM

The problem with massive consolidation is whether the DOJ would EVER approve it. They didn't give UA any real chance to merge with US, and I doublt the CO/NW/DL codeshare will get approved either. My whole argument in support of industry consolidation in 2000 seems moot and irrelevant now--a recession was something that would've improved sooner rather than later--but a wholesale, forced, industry-wide restructuring was something no one ever expected. I'm still interested in working in the airline business--the problem with living in a hub is that it's all one airline and virtually no opportunities with anyone else. AirTran's problems in PIT was not for lack of effort (yes, they're still here, only go through ATL) but because of lack of customers, i.e. business travelers. They learned the same lesson JetTrain and Nations Air learned in '96--don't mess with US Airways on their home turf. Even with US restructuring, and dropping some Florida routes from PIT, I just don't think AirTran will ever have a mini-hub here. But they do have a customer service position available and I'm going for it. I also just joined Kelly Services' roster in Moon Township, near the PIT airport. Tough choice, but if AirTran falls through, I still have a backup plan. Take care everybody.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: pjet580 (---.ph.ph.cox.net)
Date: August 08, 2003 11:39PM

As far as Airbus is concerned they put out a very good product but being an employee of the ONLY all-Boeing airline (Southwest) I have a saying that is oft-repeated by my co-workers..."If it ain't Boeing..I ain't going" I have had some pretty bad flights on A320 equipment flown by America West (although HP is a fine airline in its own right). If domestic carriers want to make a positive impression on us folks at home they would support the local team and forgo the attractive lease arrangements that Airbus offers. Once the lease payments kick in those carriers will find that their profit margins are considerably smaller than they were when they signed the order book for the European airplanes.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: August 09, 2003 01:59AM

If you come from a background of taking classes concerning airlines, or are a full time arm chair quarterback, some of the things that the ailrines are doing today may look attractive to you, or "trendy" and "in".
But if you are an experienced person, having really worked for years in the airlines, you know that what pjet580 said above is really true.

I am sick and tired of reading how the airlines are taking yet another government handout to survive. What ever happened to survival of the fittest. In other words, let the people speak. Let the customers determine who stays and who goes!
You can subsidize mediocrity or you can let the market determine who stays in business. I remember a time, not that long ago when the best survived. This was before corporate raiders who destroyed a good company just to line their pockets and run. That was before the lesser airlines went in debt up to their eyeballs to destroy their competition with takeovers.

The 90s were the decade of "if it's foreign, it's cool". Let's not keep making that same old worn out mistake. Giving away the goose that laid the golden egg to other countries is not only stupid, it's outright treason.

Support those who take care of your backside and our own country.
You wouldn't spit at your parents for taking care of you. Don't bite off the hand that feeds you......(American made products).

One way to be patriotic is to buy American whenever you can.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Dave Wiebe (---.74.252.170.Dial1.Baltimore1.Level3.net)
Date: August 09, 2003 07:39AM

Hi everybody. Yeah, I'll buy American, but only if it's the best product. I have a simple question for y'all: have any of you ever flown on an Airbus? If you've flown on one, chances are you'll never want to fly another aircraft again. I know I really don't. And this was after flying one of PI's very own 737s, US354, the City of Greensboro, ex N341P. I love to fly, but I loved the whisper-quiet Rolls-Royce engine of an Airbus A319. I'd flown in 737s most of my life, and I was never really crazy about the noise next to me. I practically jumped through the roof of the aircraft the last time I flew on a 737-400! My buddy Matt about died laughing. Keep in mind, this was before I cleaned 737s and A319s all night. I have tremendous respect for the 737, but I still like Airbus better. Fly one and chances are, you'll agree. Take care.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: August 09, 2003 12:09PM

The 737-400 is one of the quietest aircraft ever.
The 737-200 even was not that loud.
Now if you want to talk LOUD. The BAC-111 was the loudest aircraft ever made in the history of avation, and USAir used to fly them.

Corporate wellfare must end.
Stop bailing out a carrier that will only put money in the pockets of the French and Germans.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: September 15, 2003 10:20PM

It's worse than I thought!
I found many many pics of perfectly good Boeing 737-400s sitting abandoned, butted and in shambles where USAir has gotten rid of them.
What's so astounding is they were delivered in Fall of 1988, just weeks after my Wife and I got married. I remember most of them, cause I boarded the very first Piedmont flight using the 737-400.
It was the Thomas H Davis Pacemaker.
I was upset enough to see them parking 737-300s in the western desert to resell or use later, but this.....scrapped, taken apart, as new as they are....
It's almost a sin.
These airliners cost around 40 Mil if I am correct in my memory and was supposed to last a good airline minimum 20, max over 30 years!
Anyone else upset by this situation?
Or is this directly related to "the bankruptsy?"
Would have expected they at least be used by another airline who is worthy of them!

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Chip (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: September 16, 2003 02:19AM

It's disgraceful. The bigwigs at Useless Airways are probably scrapping these good aircraft for some kind of capital loss write-off and/or to receive a big, whopping federal subsidy while at the same time sucking Useless Airways dry and into extinction.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: September 17, 2003 12:05AM

Here are two stark contrasts for you....
Piedmont was "proud" of their 737-300s.
USAirways on the other hand, wants to dump theirs for Airbus...

[www.airliners.net]

[www.airchive.com]

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Chip (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: September 17, 2003 01:12AM

Well, USAirways is certainly arrogant enough and seemingly anti-American-- much like the country from which Airbus is marketed. I'd like to suggest they leave U.S.A. out of their name.

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: September 17, 2003 01:18AM

Will the last true Piedmont employee please bring with you, the speedbird and the American Flag!

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Re: Few Piedmont Aircraft left at USAirways
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: September 17, 2003 01:32AM

Another thought....
If there is now a 15 year service limit for aircraft, what does that say about employee service limits?
???

Question..

What is the reason for an airline being in business?

1) To serve the employees with jobs.

2) To serve passengers.

3) To serve the stock holders.

What if the employees own stock?

What if the customers own stock?

Or do they own enough to matter?

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