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Re: The Fokker Aircraft
Posted by: RonaldMacklin (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: April 15, 2004 12:46PM

1, Air came from a compressor on each gear box.
2. Door pressure was 500. I think gear was 2000. Not sure about brakes.
There was pneumatic and hydraulic nose steering.
3. Not sure
4. Mechanical linkage.
5. Need for compressor to run. It was very noisy.
6. At first yes. Later no.
7. Weight saving.
8. System was manual using tabs.
Will see if I can still locate operating pressure of various systems.
Walter Kidde made good fire extinguishers. They knew very little about high pressure pneumatic comprerssors.They knew less about quality control. If it had not been for Piedmont's accessory shop the system would have been a failure. All F-27 operators copied our modifications. Kidde did also.

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Re: The Fokker Aircraft
Posted by: RonaldMacklin (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: April 15, 2004 01:40PM


Item 2. The operating pressure of the main system was 3300 PSI.
Item #3 the uplock, downlock and actuating cylinder were pneumatically operated. There was also a prop brake that used 1000PSI to stop the prop after engine shut down.
I asked Joe Archer and he did not know. The above information came from Bill Powell. What he says is correct.

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Re: The Fokker Aircraft
Posted by: Chip (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: April 16, 2004 01:17AM

Thank you, Mr. Macklin! Given the fact that a gas can be compressed under pressure but that a fluid cannot, it stood to reason (to me, anyway) that the F-27/FH-227 would have had a much higher incidence of various LG failures than other aircraft. From your answer, this was apparently true in the earlier years of these birds, but Piedmont was highly instrumental in exterminating these 'bugs'. And thanks again for this enlightening info!

One other thing about the FH-227: it is also my understanding that Fairchild Hiller was going to designate this model as yet still the F-27, but with a different sub-series dash # (F-27-blankety blank). Robert Peach, then president of the now-defunct Mohawk Airlines, however, insisted that FH give the plane a different aircraft model # altogether, apparently to make the passengers believe that it was an entirely new line of aircraft. You probably know this already, but in case you didn't, Mr. Peach decided to "end it all" with a self-inflicted gunshot in Spring '72, at the beginning of the takeover of Mohawk by Allegheny.

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Re: The Fokker Aircraft
Posted by: Marshall H. Massengale (---.com)
Date: August 20, 2004 07:15AM

The first time I flew Piedmont was in August, 1968 GSP-FAY. I was seventeen at the time and was on a weekend trip to check out a prospective college in North Carolina. My mother and I had flown down from ORD on an EA L-188 Electra that morning and had just a 45 min layover at GSP. We checked in right away for the connecting PI flight but were told the plane hadn't even left INT. Nevertheless, the flight arrived on time--a Martin 404. As it approached the gate the agent deftly directed it into position, parking the airplane at about a 45 degree angle pointing out from the gate, port side inward. The ventral airstairs dropped just after the pilot cut the port engine but left the starboard motor idling. A couple passengers deplaned and we were quickly ushered out to the waiting aircraft. The ground crew, in the meantime, had unloaded and reloaded the airplane with baggage, express and mail through the portside forward cargo door. The F/A met the two of us at the top of the gangway and shut the pressure door behind us. We were the only passengers apparently to board. The port engine was started as we found our seats and we strapped in as the plane taxied out. We made a stop enroute at RDU? which was choreographed the same way as the stop at GSP where we had boarded. Fascinated by the unique aspects of PI's operations, I asked the F/A where the flight had originated and she told me the crew had begun their day quite early that morning at CVG and that there were nine stops enroute to MYR. When I later checked the timetable, I discovered that most stops called for only five minutes ground time. Needless to say but that I was most impressed with how PI really had their groove down when it came to providing fast, efficient service to local communities along multi-stop routes.

Kind Regards,

Marshall H. Massengale
Suwanee, GA USA

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Re: The Fokker Aircraft
Posted by: Mike Maloch (---.dsl.mindspring.com)
Date: September 03, 2004 05:14AM

I started in ATL in 84 was transfered to JAX right in the middle of the "florida shuttle" with the F-28's and dash 8's . It was a fun time we had 1 capt on the F-28 that would come in with all the speed brakes on and could never drive a stright line LOL .
From what i understand now is that Southwest has the 2 guys that thought up the florida shuttle and now what do u see ????? southwest has covered Florida!!!!

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Re: The Fokker Aircraft
Posted by: Steve Lyons (---.chartertn.net)
Date: September 05, 2004 01:44AM

I loved the Fokker aircraft just like all the aircraft Piedmont ever flew
during my time there - 1984 - merger.
The Fokkers had their own personalities.
I can still remember the whine the engines made.
Those cargo bins that were so difficult to load bags into IF
you had a full flight and had to climb inside them to pack it tight.
Especially the rear/aft cargo bin! Not very many of us braved that one.
On light passenger flights, one could just toss the bags in though.
And the F100s with USAir, the plastic liners made it easy to slide
bags in.
Oh the memories! :)
I loved the Florida shuttle.
Every flight on Piedmont was special though.

Steve

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Re: The Fokker Aircraft
Posted by: Kevin Faris (128.227.88.---)
Date: April 15, 2005 02:21PM

Couldn't help but notice. After several years of maintaining an FH-227 for the University of Florida, I have a pretty good knowledge of the systems. The answer to number three is yes, all pneumatic lock, and unlock, a function of the first portion of travel of the retract cylinder unlocked, and conversely, the last portion of travel locked it down. The pressure came from a pair of Roots blowers mounted one each on the accessory gear boxes, and was stored in a high pressure bottle, with an emergency bottle as back up. The steering was all pneumatic also. Once the bottle was pressurized, I could get about 3 or 4 retracts out of it before having to reservice by either a ground unit, or running an engine. The system was prone to slow leaks, and sometimes when sitting on the ramp for extended periods, we'd have to chock up the wheels, and run an engine to refill the bottles. The brakes were also pneumatic (with its own bottle), and as such, would suddenly start rolling when an engine was cranked up - no steering, no brakes!
Since we got rid of the old bird, I sleep better now. I'm sure the folks at Piedmont in Winston-Salem do too, they used to perform the heavy maintenance every year. 227's aren't very maintenance friendly.

Regards,

Kevin

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Re: The Fokker Aircraft
Posted by: Chip (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: April 17, 2005 03:24AM

Thank you, Kevin! That was an enlightening bit of information for me. Although I've never had the misfortune to work on an FH-227 myself (not to mention the misfortune of NOT having ever worked for Piedmont Airlines-- I still think of it as THE airline of my hometown), as a former aircraft mechanic of 18-1/2 years, I am VERY familiar with the way any pressurized system of any aircraft "leaks down". Pneumatic systems on any bird were the pits.
PIEDMONT AIRLINES----- MY airline!!!!!

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Re: The Fokker Aircraft
Posted by: anthony tuttle (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date: March 05, 2006 08:20PM

regarding the f-27 and f-227 they had compressors driven from the gearboxes
just like a hyd pump on the ys-11.they were a pain to replace! the pressure
was three thousand lbs. I think.I worked Fh-227 B checks in INT in the 74/75
era.

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Happy Holiday
Posted by: kermit oakley (---.an1.rdu6.da.uu.net)
Date: July 04, 2007 12:21PM

HAPPY JULY 4 EVERYBODY !!!!!!!!!!! KERMIT OAKLEY

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Re: The Fokker Aircraft
Posted by: AccessAir (---.dhcp.insightbb.com)
Date: August 02, 2007 12:09AM

According to my Fairchild FH-227 manuals, the Landing gear, The flaps, Theairstair door and ground steering unit and brakes were all pneumatic powered.
Ram air via air scoops was collected to maintain a constant pressure.

After a flight on a Fooker F.27-200 of Mesaba, the F/O explained to us that if they did not have enuff air pressure to operate some of the pneumatics, the could simply fly around until the air pressure in the system built back up...via the airscoops...

According to Fokker documents, the pneumatic system was used instead of hydralics because it was simpler, lighter and didnt create a fire hazard if a hydralic line leaked fluid. It was also easier to maintain. The only problems they seemed to have were in instances if there was a gasget in the pneumatics and when the plane operated in colder environments, the gasgets contracted especially on the shock abosrber struts of the landing gear.
Otherwise the system was very simple.

However the protoype Fairchild F-27 was accidentally w/o due to a gound worker placing his hand over a pneumatic port on the outside of the aircraft as it sat on the ramp. msn 1 , N1027. When he did this it gave a signal to the system that the aircraft was off the ground and the main gear started to retract. the whole weight of the aircraft came to rest on the nose gear which finally gave way as it could not take the strain and the fuselage right in the area of the forward cargo door crinkled and bent the airframe..Therefore, they scrapped that one and made a msn 1A and reged it with same tail number and the rest is history!!

Thats about all I can tell you...

Gary

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Re: The Fokker Aircraft
Posted by: AccessAir (---.dsl.dixnil.grics.net)
Date: August 10, 2007 04:04PM

For Kevin Faris:

Here is your Florida Gators FH-227...

[fh227.rwy34.com]

Cheers, Gary (AccessAir)

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